Have you ever thought about the impact that music has on podcasts? In this episode of On the Mic with Ad Results Media, co-hosts Lindsay Smith and Nathan Spell work with Senior Copywriter Evan Brown, to discuss the nuance of music in the podcasting space. Together they review multiple podcast openers and collaborate on what the new sound of On the Mic might be.

Podcast Transcript


That's the great thing about stamps.com. They grow with you.


As much fun as I had. I couldn't wait to get back to my sleep number bed.


I love my third love bras. They're hands down the most comfortable bras I've ever owned.


I love making blue apron and I love it. It's my me time.


Hi, podcast listeners. And welcome to another episode of on the mic with ad results media. I'm your host Lindsay Smith, and I'm your co-host Nate spill. In today's episode, we are welcoming ad results, media, his very own senior copywriter, Evan brown. As we dig into an analysis of podcasts, music styles, we'll be discussing themes that we vibe with themes that we don't and what updating the on the mic theme might sound like. So Evan, before we begin, why don't you give our listeners a little background on you?


Thanks for having me. First of all. So I've never been a podcast guest before, so it's like, you know, that's one thing off the bucket list, but I've got, I've got a background in music. I mean, really what it comes down to is I'm just a huge music fan. I'm a music lover. I love talking about music. I love listening to music. I like thinking about it. I do have, I went to college for music and studied it formally for a little while. And it's always kind of been a part of my life, mostly kind of on, on the side, but I did some, I was in a band for a while and then I started doing some media composition. And then I think I just, I think I kind of became that guy at every job I've ever had. That's like, oh, we get it, dude. You like music, you know, so, but I can't help it.

(1m 39s):

It's just something that I like thinking about. So

(1m 41s):

Yeah, I'm excited about this. Then we hired out some other musicians to write the on the mic theme. So I'm excited to explore musical themes.

(1m 52s):

Yeah. I thought it would be fun to kind of dive into how music and sound are used in podcasts. Cause it's, I hadn't really thought about that myself. So this is a new topic for me to dive into and then we can have a discussion about it. And then I'll work with you to, to come up with a new opening theme for on the mic. Now there's nothing wrong with the current theme. I think it's great, but it's just kind of in the spirit of a refresh and a little, a fun little experiment. Yeah. Let's dive in. Cool. So just a few thoughts on, on podcast music in general, unlike film scoring, you're obviously not putting music to picture with podcasts. It's not usually supporting a story or like the inner emotional world of a character, although you could do that for some of the more narrative shows, but that's obviously less common, but the music is usually one of the first things that you hear in a podcast.

(2m 41s):

You're definitely establishing a mood right off the bat. It's kind of an important first impression and a way to get people kind of primed for the show. I think the music can turn into a sort of audio trademark for the product or for, for a podcast, which is essentially a product that's, you know, mostly just voices. So it can have that distinct audio signature to the beginning of it. It's like the Netflix sound, you know, when you log into Netflix and here that didn't even like, you know exactly you're immediately in binge-watching mode. You know, it just primes you or even just the, the theme songs for shows. Like if you've ever watched succession, the moment that theme song kicks in, you're like, okay, here we go. I'm in the mindset.

(3m 22s):

I'm in the zone. It's, it's it like trains you to, to get into the right mindset. So, so obviously music is not the most important part of a podcast, but it is a branding opportunity and it sets the tone from the get go. So why don't we listen to some examples we're going to start with Conan O'Brien needs a friend

(3m 44s):

Fall back to school <em></em>

(4m 4s):

So that's Napoleon dynamite

(4m 8s):

100%. Oh, is that in Napoleon dynamite? I didn't even realize that I watched that movie fairly recently.

(4m 14s):

I came to say that as a certain point in my life, actually, I'm not ashamed to say this, but at a certain point in my life, I could quote that movie front to back.

(4m 21s):

Pretty much. There's no shame in that he was really popular the quotable movie. So this is a rare example. I think in the podcast world of using an existing established song as a theme, this is a white Stripe song. Conan I know Conan has a relationship with Jack White and he loves this song. So, and he's kind of got the luxury of using a song by a famous band. I don't think most podcasts quite have get to reach that level. So that's definitely a rarity, but...

(4m 47s):

And obviously it works great with the show name because the show is kind of Brian needs a friend. I can tell that we're going to be friends. Yeah.

(4m 53s):

Exactly. It's, it's very appropriate. And actually on that note, one other thing I wanted to, let me play you one other thing here, which is the bumper music. So one of the things I like about the Conan podcast music is the bumper music or what you might call it, transitional music. It's just that really short little, it's just a guitar like in this case, it's usually before or after breaks ad breaks, it kind of signals like, Hey, we're back to the content. It kind of grabs your attention again. And a lot of podcasts do this. Like I know this American life, I don't even know if this American life has a theme song at the start, but they use bumper music throughout, during ad breaks or sorry, act breaks just to kind of keep the story going.

(5m 37s):

But it also kind of brings you back in, in case you, your mind starts to wander a little bit. And on, on the note that you made Nate w on the theme song, I think that Conan's bumpers are also very, just friendly sounding. You know, it's very inviting and it actually reminds me of a Beatles song called two of us. I don't know if that was intentional, but like the baseline it's kind of a generic guitar lick, but the baseline is very much a reminds me of that. I know Konan's a Beatles fan. So it could be, I liked that.

(6m 4s):

Yeah. It feels really friendly. It fits with the same vibe. Absolutely.

(6m 9s):

That's stuff. We have my favorite murder So here we have a, like a proper custom theme song. This is clearly made just for this show. It's very homemade sounding. I like that it's in this minor key folk tune sound. Cause it's like, for some reason that sounds appropriate for a murder theme. I mean, there there's like this whole sub genre of murder ballads and folk music.

(6m 51s):

So I feel like that it's appropriate to associate folk with murder, but I don't know if I'm way off base with that.

(6m 57s):

No, I mean, I don't know about the folk music and murder, but it does feel like you're about to go on some sort of a dark adventure.

(7m 4s):

Yeah. It's kinda, it's kind of distant sounding. Yeah. It feels kind of dusty kind of. Yeah. It's kind of spooky. I think it just fits the aesthetic. All right. Next up. Let's talk about WTF.

 (7m 28s):

All right.

(7m 30s):

So here's an example of a typical podcast intro. That's just like a super quick piece of music that leads right into the host intro. Usually it acts as like a music bed underneath the introduction. I obviously can't play this whole thing because it's one of the more profane, but I conic podcast introductions out there. I actually think that WTF was the, might've been the first podcast I ever heard in my life. Makes sense. And, and, and stamps.com was a sponsor back then. Like I, I think of course it's very full circle here. Like it's, that's, it's, that's like a, I associate stamps.com with my first podcast listening experience. I like how this one is very high energy grabs your attention.

(8m 13s):

It gets you excited for some cursing from mark and for a good interview, just a classic intro. Next step. We have office ladies,

(8m 28s):

I'm Jenna Fischer and I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on the office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate office rewatch podcast just for you each week, we will break down an episode of the office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you where the office ladies.

(8m 47s):

So office ladies. All right. So I'm lumping this one and I'm going to categorize this one as mystery science theater, 3000 style intro. The reason being that show had this kind of iconic introduction that just summarizes the entire plot of the show in the intro song. So it didn't matter which episode you started watching. You were like immediately caught up just by listening to the theme. Granted, in this example, the hosts are not singing the theme, but I still put it in that category. You hear this and you know exactly what you're in for exactly what you've tuned into. It's very considerate of the listener to let them know exactly what they, what what's going on in the, in the episode. Alrighty, next stuff we have. How did this get made?

(9m 38s):

...her ass will find the answer to the question.

(9m 47s):

Okay. See that one. That one reminds me of mystery science theater. Like when I hear that the...

(9m 53s):

Yeah, actually I, I agree with that. I think it's in a similar category and they actually are singing it on this one. This is another, just like true proper theme song. You know, it's not just a bit of music that comes in before they talk. I love this one. This is one of my favorite ones. It's funny. It's super energetic. It gets you really ready to listen to them. Talking about terrible movies. It gets you in the mood to laugh, really good production value. And again, also very considerate to the listener because well, it's they do. They go through it pretty quickly though. So if you're not paying attention, it's not quite as educational as, as the office ladies. One next step is whatever happened to pizza at McDonald's...

(10m 30s):

One of my favorites, welcome to whatever happened to pizza at McDonald's.

(10m 53s):

Okay. So I love this one because it's like this classy jazz introduction. It has this air of legitimacy. It makes it a very formal and official like public radio S and that's kind of like the whole thing with this podcast is just to pretend that he's on that level with his investigative journalism. But yeah, that one just kind of cracks me up and it makes me think of, of like an NPR intro or something. And for those who don't know that podcast is very much not on that level. That's a kind of part of the joke. It's like snark, but it's like with a straight face, it's very, it's classy. Snark, if that's a thing. Okay. Next is a, we got two more in this section and the next one is stuff you should know specifically from an episode or from a series called the short stuff.

(11m 49s):

Hey and welcome to the short stuff. Shorties. There's Chuck there's...

(11m 53s):

Jerry I'm Josh. We're all feeling kind of short. So this is short stuff...

(11m 58s):

That is short. They just launched right into it.

(12m 3s):

It's another, it's another jazz one, to be honest, I, the only real reason I included this one is because it spotlights the trombone. And I just want it to give a little shout out to the trombone as an underrated underappreciated instrument that doesn't get enough. Love.

(12m 19s):

I played trombone. Oh yeah.

(12m 21s):

Yeah. Underrepresented in a podcast music...

(12m 25s):

For sure. I mean the range of a trombone, what other instrument feels equally at home in lounge, jazz, a blooper reel and like Hans Zimmer style film scoring, you know, like there's no more, there's no more versatile those big trailer or the big horn blasts that you hear in trailers and movie. That's all Trump Boone's. I mean, it's other stuff too, but it's like the trombones are the heart and soul of that. So just wanted to give a quick little...

(12m 53s):

I actually loved the music for stuff Chanel. I used to listen to that podcast a lot. And as soon as you hit play, I was like, oh yeah. Like, like transplant me back to like listening to this.

(13m 3s):

Yeah. I mean, in keeping with the theme, these w when you listen to something every day, and even if it's just a little bit of music, it just becomes the signature. Okay. So I'm going to end this part with, why won't you date me?

(13m 24s):

...maybe welcome to...

(13m 42s):

Okay. First and foremost, I love that it's Nicole.

(13m 45s):

I think, I think that we've found the...

(13m 50s):

I brought this one up because I felt like this would be perfect to emulate for on the mic. No, I love this one. It's hilarious. And, and also, this is, this is yet another approach though, which is, it's not a completely original, it's not an existing song, like, or an established song like Conan uses, but it is not a completely original song. She's taking an old tin pan alley song. Hello, my baby. And makes it, why won't you date me? And you know what? You can just hear the pain in her voice. She really wants you to date her. And I appreciate that. I also, I personally have a, a special place in my heart for that, for hell of my baby, because of Spaceballs. I don't know if there's any other Spaceballs fans here, but like when I saw that when I was eight years old or something, I thought it was the funniest thing that I'd ever seen.

(14m 38s):

That was in there.

(14m 39s):

And see, I just think Michigan Jay frog.

(14m 41s):

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. It's a timeless piece. And now it's, she's just carrying the torch to podcast world. Cool. So I think we can dive into examples that I had asked you to, to send me some, some examples of podcasts themes that you either liked or didn't like, or just might be something that we could emulate when trying to make a new theme for on the mic. So let's listen to a few of those and talk a little bit about what your thoughts are starting with radio lab.

(15m 11s):

You're listening to radio lab radio, w N Y S.

(15m 28s):

First of all, this is, it's just cool. That's a really cool intro. It's glitchy, it's electronic. It's, it's more like sound design than composition with like the examples of the host voices. It's got this like quiet subdued dignity to it that I like while being very experimental. Honestly, it also kind of freaks me out a little bit when I listened to it. Like, it kind of feels like something's wrong with my brain. So I'm glad it's short. And Nate, you, you told me that you felt like it was the Sonic equivalent of a slip and slide, if you remember saying...

(16m 1s):

And I feel like what I love about it is just like, it's just like the hosts have boundless curiosity and that the show is just like all these different topics. And for me, that sound, when they hear the, like the trajectory of it, it's like, it puts me in this curious state of mind and just really, I don't know, opens up a lot of possibility. I know that, like you said, it's not a technically composed, but it's got this almost like rhythmic thing with the way the voices are.

(16m 27s):

It's like composed with sounds more than notes and chords. I mean, I wanted to know if, if you envision the, on the mic podcast theme, having that sort of sound design element to it, or, or kind of an experimental angle,

(16m 41s):

I think that if you compare, like what Radiolab did to what mark Marin's intro did, there's something kind of similar where there's like, sounds coming in with the music, even the idea of the radio lab, you can tell it's like, it's like the equivalent of a scientist going like pouring in different sounds like stirring. You know, it has this idea of like the theme of the show in the way that sound is. So I don't know if that works for on the Mike or something similar to that, but I do think because what we do at ad results is so like tied to like a ton of different brands and a ton of different shows in 10 different audio experiences. There might be some element of that mixing of different sounds with music.

(17m 23s):

I don't think we probably would vibe with, you know, on the mic to be quite as experimental as that relapsed thing, but there's something inspiring about it. For me.

(17m 34s):

It's funny. It comes across as spooky to me. Like, I don't know why it reminds me, it seems more in line with something like Alice isn't dead or the black tape. I don't know. There's something about it that I almost expect something...

(17m 49s):

A more scifi...

(17m 51s):

Out of it. Oh, that's interesting.

(17m 53s):

They talk a lot about like big mysteries in the, in the world in general. Like there's some, sometimes they're dealing with things, even if it's like a science piece, it'll be like this really big open-ended question hanging at the end, you know, you don't always get it and like buttoned up. It's not that kind of reporting where it's like at the end of it, it's all wrapped up. Sometimes you're just left kind of with that sense of, wow, we really don't know. And it's funny that you say that. I don't know if it's maybe what they intended, but it came across. So probably so...

(18m 23s):

Kind of a mysterious aspect to it. Yeah. I, I agree. I think there's definitely some elements of this that we can take into the new theme, but I also don't think that on the mic is like mysterious. Maybe, maybe the next season...

(18m 42s):

We'll have a true crime season at some point. 

(18m 44s):

Alright. Well now let's take a listen to Adam ruins everything. Hello and welcome to that's a, that's a fun one. I like that. It's super upbeat. I like that kind of surfy rockabilly guitar and the whistling. It just kind of puts you in a good mood. This is another one Nate, you had mentioned whistling might not quite work for, but you liked the vibe of it.

(19m 15s):

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if we, how good are you guys at whistling?

(19m 19s):

No, no. It comes and goes. I'm not going to win any awards.

(19m 25s):

They're not going to put me on the cover of whistling monthly anytime soon.

(19m 28s):

But I agree like that, that guitar tone with, and also there's like, is there like a little bit of delay on there? Like a little slap back delay or something that sound it's just fun. And obviously the whole point of the show, like that's a very tongue in cheek intro for a show that's very tongue in cheek and irrationally. Well, what I loved about it was how quickly you go from start to finish, but it feels complete. Like, it feels like there's an arc that works even though it's super compact.

(19m 54s):

That's a good point. Got to tell a story in a very, very short amount of time. Now let's take a listen to adventure zone, specifically, episode 51.

(20m 52s):

So I feel like that's definitely the longest one that we've listened to so far...

(20m 56s):

By far the longest, but...

(20m 57s):

It makes sense because it's more of a narrative podcast. It's almost like a, it's almost like a sixties TV show opener, like your like Star Trek.

(21m 8s):

Yeah. Yeah. And it's also got almost like a video gamey element to it as well. And it's, I like that. It's kind of mysterious. It's definitely very adventurous and intriguing. I think I love it. I think,

(21m 20s):

Well, it is three brothers and their dad playing D and D. So I think it's very appropriate.

(21m 25s):

Do they have different music for different episodes of that show? Because I feel like I listened to a couple others and they weren't all the same.

(21m 31s):

So they have different music for each arc that they play. I see you said episode 51 and I can not tell you what that is. I'd have to go back and look, but like their current arc is ether. See their underwater. So like their music is very evocative of, of being underwater and you know, more, more of that kind of vibe rather than Spacey. That's so fun. I love that.

(21m 52s):

Yeah. That one's really good. The production value is high. I would like to, I would high five. Whoever came up with that, that music, I think it's really good.

(21m 59s):

I want to say it's one of their listeners that writes it for them. Oh, that's cool. They used to give a thank you at the beginning and I'd have to go back and listen. But I think it was one of their listeners that kind of like volunteered up their music and it, and it just worked.

(22m 11s):

You know what, actually, that just reminded me, not that I want to go back to radio lab, but I think the Radiolab sounds were all sourced from listeners and that's part of what I liked about that intro. That's cool. I think they actually, part of the show is people like call in at the end or like there there's people that call their voices, read the credits. And so there's like this like crowdsource element to the show anyway. So that's like, that's a degression that I forgot to include earlier.

(22m 40s):

Yeah. I, I had no idea. That's it? It's a fascinating aspect. All right. So next up we are doing food people.

(22m 60s):

Hi everyone. I'm Amanda.

(23m 2s):

Okay. So I just, I just thought of this while I was listening to it just then it's so upbeat and happy and it makes me in the context of it being food people. It makes me think of like, what's going through your head after you've just taken a bite of something like really, really good. And you're just like, oh yeah. That's like, you kind of dance in your seat a little bit.

(23m 23s):

I've definitely done that where I've like taken a bite and I'm like, literally dancing for joy.

(23m 30s):

You're just like, oh, that's, that's the right symphony of flavors. I'm just, it's just moving me. I like it even more now because I L I liked it. It doesn't really have any melody to it, but also it's one of those interests that becomes the music bed under the talking. So you kind of have to make sure that when you, that, that it either transitions into something simple or, you know, it, it just starts out as something simple. So kind of, you can't make it too busy.

(23m 53s):

And I also noticed that they did some sound stuff and it was really short at the very beginning, but the sound of like the champagne or whatever. I mean, it, it worked really well, but it was also totally so different from like mark Marin or especially Radiolab.

(24m 8s):

Yeah. Like they couldn't be more different. It's still, it's still has a lot of energy like mark Marin, but it's not, it's not nearly as aggressive as like the, the rock intro that mark has, but considering the name of his podcast, I think that's appropriate. We've got, we've got three more. And the last one is you're going to like the last one. Okay. Next up. We're doing you're wrong about

(24m 43s):

The podcast. So there's another one with that surfer.

(24m 46s):

Exactly. It's very much, it's very reminiscent of Adam ruins everything. You both sent this one to me as an example, by the way, both mentioned this. So that's one of the reasons I wanted to make sure that, that we talked about it briefly because it is, it is similar to Adam ruins everything. I actually, another thing that I wanted to mention about this one is a couple of years ago, I did a theme song for a podcast, a small podcast that was scifi themed. And it was super similar to this. It was like upbeat surf rock guitar with the theremin, the theremin kind of when it came in, once you started talking, so you couldn't hear it as much, but it's got that. Anytime you have a theremin, it's a very scifi IE spooky thing.

(25m 28s):

I mean, what do we do?

(25m 30s):

Throw them in. Yeah. I think maybe it should just be a rule that all podcasts themes must have a theremin.

(25m 38s):

You know, if we can get one for on the mic, I'm, I'm...I'm all for it. I can make that happen. Not a real theremin, but affects...

(25m 47s):

We'll take what we can get at Thurman ask, you know, whatever you got.

(25m 52s):

Yeah. Well, you know, when I think add results and on the mic, I think theremin like spooky 50 sixties. Saifai clearly Nate. And you're in your note to me, you said you weren't sure if this would translate to on the mic, but you're a sucker for this kind of intro. Yeah. I love...

(26m 10s):

That guitar sounded. It sounds, so. It sounds really good. Look, sorry, Lindsay. The, the two guitar obsessed guys are going to talk about guitar tone for the next hour.

(26m 21s):

Can you tell how much I'm holding back? Just being like it's good. And that's all I'm going to say. Don't hold back,

(26m 26s):

Man. This is, this is your time to shine.

(26m 28s):

The thing I love about, and actually, you know, Lindsay, I only know about the show, cause you've talked about it. I actually, I'm pretty sure this is one of the podcasts that you were saying you listened to a lot. I haven't listened to it very much, but something about the idea of like discovering, like you're wrong about something, it just fits again. It's it's maybe a tangent. Maybe it's a stretch, but it's like, I dunno, there's something surprising about the intro...

(26m 50s):

Pressingly, upbeat for some of the topics that they cover. Like they do a whole series on the OJ Simpson trials and you wouldn't think that that would be upbeat, but they infuse this humor into it. That's really refreshing. And it's really, I don't know. It's relatable. Like you're listening to it. And you're like, I'm learning about these new things. I had no idea that this, that I was wrong about this time in history and yeah, it's just, they just bring a, a humor to it. That's really nice. Love it.

(27m 18s):

Okay. Next up. We're going to listen to maintenance phase.

(27m 34s):

So maintenance phase has a little bit of crossover from you're wrong about Michael Hobbs was a host on both. He only does maintenance phase now, but while I love maintenance phase, I picked this one because I felt like this intro was closest to what we would probably rewrite for on the mic.

(27m 54s):

Yeah. I agree with that. It's the right mood. I love it. I think it's simple. It's kind of this dreamy kind of synth pop thing, but it's a, it sounds like a podcast intro, even though we've just heard a very wide array of podcasts, introductions that all work. This one just sounds like the beginning of a podcast to me.

(28m 13s):

Yeah. There's something that's just my, okay. I actually, my knee-jerk reaction when I heard that was that there was, it was like a Mario level or something, but yeah, exactly. The water level That swimming, that swimming kind of feel that it gives, it's a comfortable sound. I don't want to say it's comforting, but it just like puts you at ease kind of. And I don't know, it's easy to vibe with it. Just kind of like, alright, here we go.

(28m 40s):

It's, it's got some friendliness to it, Conan style, but in a very different way.

(28m 46s):

And I think also, I guess, I don't know if that's just like keys or whatever's going on, but the kind of electronic feel I think fits, even though I do love that guitar sound we were listening to.

(28m 56s):

Yeah. We can go back to that now though. We've had our time, that'll be in the extended cuts of the shows or we will just add that

(29m 5s):

In later. We'll add it into, off the mic. Yep.

(29m 8s):

Well, on that note, we're headed into our final case study here. And this one is from a little podcast. I like to call on the mic.

(29m 17s):

I think I've heard of...

(29m 23s):

That's the great thing about stamps.com. They grow with you

(29m 28s):

As much fun as I had. I couldn't wait to get back to my sleep number bed.

(29m 34s):

I love my third love bras. They're hands down the most comfortable bras I've ever owned.

(29m 41s):

I love making blue apron and I love it. It's my me time.

(29m 52s):

I, so I like our intro. I do, but I'm wondering if it's maybe moodier than we are now.

(30m 0s):

I like it. I will say that I'm waiting at the end for there to be some it's it feels mysterious. And it's almost like we're about to discover something. It feels a little bit like a true crime intro is really what I'm trying to say. I know why we liked it. And I agree that I still like it, but yeah, like the tone of the show didn't end up being what we thought it was going to be. Whenever we started...

(30m 26s):

He started the whole show is supposed to be very educational, very analytical. And then I think mine and Nate's personalities...

(30m 35s):

Hear the show in a very conversational and I think a pretty friendly and accessible direction, which isn't to say that, you know, there's not educational and some academic and some analysis, but the tone is a little more, you know, every day...

(30m 53s):

Friendlier. So are there any elements of this current intro that you like in the context that you'd like me to keep in mind for the new one, as far as maybe that element worked and we should keep incorporating that? I mean, anything from the, do you want to incorporate the, some of the clips of testimonials at the beginning or are there any other like parts of the instrumentation or anything that you particularly liked...

(31m 18s):

I'm partial to the, the soundbites, it sets us apart, you know, it's ad results, you know, you know exactly what you're listening for and you're just hearing some really nice little snippets of what we can offer.

(31m 32s):

I think what we could do to kind of evoke the show more laterally instead of literally, I don't know, there's something kind of meta about the, the sound using the sound clip design is, I don't know if it's literally like, you know, the sound of a mic turning on somehow. I don't know what that even sounds like, but some, some idea of like being behind the scenes, if there's some way that we can engineer that feel with some sounds on top of the music. I think that would be really cool because a, I think we could keep the intro a little shorter that way as the testimonials will just say, well, they'll take more time to incorporate them all, but I get what you're saying, because you know, we don't want to lose that.

(32m 15s):

Ultimately like what the show is about, which is how we drive the results for our clients that we do and what people should know about podcast advertising. So I don't know. I'm just trying to think of how we could maybe evoke that without having the actual, like snippets of the ads themselves.

(32m 34s):

You go the Foley route, like sound of pulling some headphones on plugging your microphone

(32m 41s):

In and even just someone being like, is this thing on or something? I don't know that that might be a little much, but

(32m 46s):

Yeah. So like kind of behind the scenes of podcast creation itself, the actual process of putting a podcast together is kind of what you're saying.

(32m 56s):

And just getting started, like sitting in front of a microphone to start the show.

(33m 1s):

So to guide me a little bit further, I've gotten some good insight as to what, what you like. And don't like, and what I think you're looking for, but to really help guide me as I come up with a few options, hopefully I can come up with several different options. And then the next time we convene, we'll listen to those and you can pick them apart as much as you like. And tell me what you like and don't like about them, but just a few final questions to get me in the zone to get you something that you like. So as far as the tone is concerned, serious and professional. Sure. But this is not a joyless podcast you have, you have on around here. So some, some I'm thinking, you know, some, a balancing act between sounding kind of polished and professional, but also fun and joyful.

(33m 52s):


(33m 53s):

Yeah. I was going to say friendly. I think that there's a way to be friendly and sophisticated, not in the, like what he told you since, but just in the like elegant in the presentation of it. It's like, it can be simple, you know, it can say a lot of things without having clutter...

(34m 10s):

You create your out to create a high quality podcast, but you don't take ourselves overly. Seriously. Obviously.

(34m 18s):

I certainly don't. I know Nate, I do though. I'm overly serious all the time. So, and then as far as the tempo is concerned, upbeat without being like overly energetic sounds maybe like mid tempo, not too mellow. Or do you want something that's like kind of chill, friendly and chill. I feel like...

(34m 37s):

I mean, not, not a beat to where it's frantic, but I wouldn't say we want something. I don't know. Lindsay, do you think chill...

(34m 44s):

Chill doesn't quite hit the right nerve.

(34m 48s):

Maybe something like kind of grooving, like a little bit of a groove.

(34m 52s):

..Works. This isn't just because like, I'm a huge fan of funk, but I mean a little bit of that kind of just like fun with the, with the rhythm would be fun, but...

(35m 4s):

Also don't forget the funky Pearman with the trombone. Obviously...

(35m 10s):

I'm all these questions. All these questions are just a formality I'm coming back next time with just a thera harmonized therum and Bart's honestly, it's going to be, that would be terrible, but this is what you wanted. So, and then, well, that brings me to question three, which is about the instrumentation. If there are besides Thurman and trombone, if there are instruments that you think that you definitely want in there, or that you definitely don't, whether it's guitar, if you want to talk about guitar again for a half an hour or synth, or we've talked about the sound design, nothing is off limits as an option for the most part. But if there's anything that you think I should have off limits, when I go into approach this, then please let me know.

(35m 53s):

Now is the time.  Did we reach a decision on Cal bell? 

(35m 57s):

No, we haven't even talked about it. You have not discussed Cabo. There has not been any Calwell in any of these podcasts seems so far, which is a little bit disappointing.

(36m 6s):

I will say as much as I love guitar. I don't know that I feel strongly that it needs any one instrument, including guitar, which happens to be my favorite. But I mean, I, I really want some sort of a rhythm. I don't think just like just keys or just the, some other instrument. I think some, some sort of a drum sound or some sort of a rhythm thing would be really nice because that will give it some energy.

(36m 30s):

I want it to groove, then we'll definitely have a percussive element to it. And I think my thoughts right now, anyway, as far as something like guitar is if I do add guitar, it'll probably be more of a like effects guitar then, you know, I don't want it to, I don't want it to sound like funk, you know? Like it could be funky without sounding like funk and, and guitar could kind of ruin that. I think. So I'm just going to keep that in mind.

(36m 57s):

I think you're kind of hitting on what I was thinking. Like I'm not necessarily pulled towards one specific sound, but not funk. Not total.

(37m 9s):

Yeah. No. And I agree, like that's what I was trying to say. Like something with the rhythm that, to where the rhythm gurus, but definitely not so groovy that it's like, oh, okay, this is coming from,

(37m 21s):

What food would you say is if you ate this food, that's like, that's the best version of that food and the song plays in your head. Which food would that be? This is, this is not going to be helpful to me. I'm just curious what you would say?

(37m 35s):

Barbacoa tacos.

(37m 37s):

Oh, this is going to be a barbacoa taco with you. I know that. I know that song that plays in my head.

(37m 43s):

If I were to turn this song into a food, what food would it be?

(37m 48s):

The song that play this song that you want as the podcast theme is the one that plays in your head. When you bite into the perfect blank could be sourdough or any number of other breads. I'm just trying to speak your language. And so going straight to bread here.

(38m 4s):

No, I would say, see, now I'm trying to do some mental calculus to translate friendly and, and, and yet sophisticated. So I'm going to say, I'm sticking with tacos.

(38m 17s):

I'm going to say this is, I want this song to be like a croissant. I want it. And I said, croissant, no, I'm just kidding. No, I want it to be a croissant in the sense that it's like, yeah, there's a rich, like that is elegant. There's something like pristine about it, but you know what? It's just a humble pastry. It's not like, you know, it's not some crazy donut with like 50 different toppings on it. It's like, it's, it's like a little elegant, but it's also who doesn't love buttery dough.

(38m 46s):

Croissants will also, they will keep you humble because you know, you can be snooty and go to a French cafe and get your croissant. You're living the high life. But no matter what, when you get up to leave, you're covered in crumbs and flakes. Like, it's just, there's no way to avoid that.

(39m 4s):

This song should leave its trace wherever. Yes.

(39m 9s):

All right. Well last, last question. Cause a case we go off the rails too much.

(39m 14s):

You haven't seen..

(39m 17s):

Oh wait, wait. We went off the rails for years...

(39m 21s):

Where we started off the rails were can, is it possible to go back on the rails? So as far as the length is concerned, this is kind of a two-parter how long do you think it should be give or take. And also, do you want this to be something that turns into a music bed under your vocal introductions?

(39m 37s):

I don't think I want it under the introductions necessarily. I'm kind of partial to the fade out.

(39m 43s):

Yeah. And I think it does somewhat depend on the song, but in general, I like when there's like the full arc of the song and it kind of ends. And then when the person starts speaking, there's kind of a rhythm to that where it's like, okay, it like buttoned up and then they come in and it just, something about that just feels really put together to me.

(40m 4s):

I think that I like about our current theme, Nate. I think it, it, it begins, it ends. And then we go into the show and it's very seamless.

(40m 12s):

Yeah. I guess what I'm trying to say too, is like having it in like that it's more versatile. Like if we're not going to be doing an interview format, the music bed might not work as much. And sometimes we don't, you know, we don't always have it as an interview format. So, but as far as length, I don't know...

(40m 26s):

Not as long as the adventure zone...

(40m 29s):

Some are shorter than two minutes. No, I'm just kidding. I don't remember how long it was.

(40m 32s):

It will definitely be shorter than to have that much. I can guarantee...

(40m 36s):

I've been surprised by how good some of them work, even though they're pretty short. So I feel like the lower limit is whatever works. The upper limit is 15 seconds like that. Does that feel like a really long intro or is that about medium?

(40m 50s):

I think 15 is very reasonable. That could be a sweet spot. It's not one of those bang bang, you know, done in a couple seconds type intros, but it's also, I don't think 15 is unreasonably. Like I don't think anyone tunes out 15 seconds in, especially if they're,

(41m 8s):

I suspect that somewhere like 10 to 15 seconds might be a sweet spot, but it also depends on what sort of other audio, if we end up like incorporating testimonials or some, some other audio elements, maybe I think the music part will probably only be 10 to 15 seconds.

(41m 22s):

Yeah. And I would say that 15 seconds is doable. As long as it's worth listening to it's like, I mean like you were just saying Lindsey is if it's, if it's Groovin, if it's, if it's a really bland, terrible track, which, you know, always possibility I accidentally do that, then 15 seconds could fit good. Feel a good, feel much, much longer, but no pressure. Oh yeah. It's a cause you have to use what I come up with. It's it's the law. We agreed. If you hate it, there's nothing you can do about it. All right. Well, I think I have plenty to start with. I'm going to get working on a few options for you and then the next time we see each other on the screen, we will listen to some music that you've never heard before.

(42m 9s):

And I'll just get your raw, honest live reactions.

(42m 13s):

Excellent. I'm excited. I'm ready to hear. I know we're going to have bespoke music. That's like the coolest thing ever. So thanks for doing it. Makes it a little, it makes it a little more personal. Yeah, absolutely.

(42m 26s):

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