In the third and final installment of our Women In Podcasting series, On the Mic with Ad Results Media is thrilled to sit down with Clio De La Llave, Nadine Robinson, and Madison Catania of Podcast Nation. During this conversation we discuss their journey into podcasting, the launch of a new agency, podcasting being akin to influencers, and the representation of women in the podcasting space.

Be sure to subscribe to the "On the Mic with Ad Results Media" podcast through iTunes.  It's a podcast about the business of podcasting and audio advertising.  We aim to educate, enlighten and push the industry forward.

Podcast Transcript

It's no doubt that once it found its footing, the Podcasting world exploded. But during our venture into this series, we found ourselves asking what came first, the listener or the content is Podcasting still skewed more towards men because the founders of Podcasting were male. In this episode of, On the Mic with Ad Results, Media Lisa Jacob's. And I close out our Women in Podcasting series with an Interview with the ladies of Podcast Nation, in which we discuss favorite female podcasts, new ventures, and how to break into the space. So let's get started The Podcasting world. It just blew us. All of our podcasts are all very female centered, more tight with the influencer space is changing all the time.

It's still a so challenging, but accepted You so much for joining us today. I like to start off our Podcast with introductions. So if y'all don't mind introducing yourself. So our listeners, that would be awesome. My name is Clio and I'm actually the founder of just a couple of different businesses. So once booth Media, and that was the first business that I started in digital marketing. And then through that, I got the opportunity to manage an influencer. She had been on the bachelorette, so Caitlyn Bristo and that became, I feel like a full-time job in itself.

(1m 30s):
And through that, I got introduced to the Podcasting world and Caitlin sort of Podcast over three years ago. And has, it was a very interesting getting to know that world in some like, well, you know, having a background in agency in like, let's just start another agency. So it's kind of an offshoot called Podcast Nation. And I worked with Madison in Nadine there producing podcast. And then on the side of business to start a wine label with Caitlyn, as well as a hair accessory line, she's not bored. It's a little Busy during quarantine. This is the honest though.

(2m 11s):
And you didn't Madison do everything at Podcast Nation. I just had the idea to start it. So go ahead and Madison. Yeah. So I'm Madison, of course, I actually began working with Clio through the marketing agency, booth Media a couple of years ago. And then once Nadine and Clio is starting a podcast Nation, I started leading production over there. So I've been there the entire time. And then I'm also launching a business where Clio Nadine are involved as well called wild casts, which is a Podcast networking platform that we're launching in just a few weeks. So still involved at Podcast Nation and doing wild cast as well.

(2m 54s):
So definitely not bored either at the moment. I can't wait until we dive into wild CAS a little bit, cause it's just the coolest Bob forum. Awesome. So I'm Nadine, I'm the last one, I guess. And I have a little background in Cleveland. I have worked together for years on different things, but I'm starting with the bougie Media, her marketing agency. And then we started another business together and now podcast Nation together. And so I'd sort of see oversee kind of the operations of Podcast station and work with our production team in the sales and marketing and, and a few different things to Clio also on this side as well. It sounds like you guys are all pretty busy with their hands in a bunch of different things.

(3m 37s):
Yeah. The millennials Just do one thing. No, absolutely not. Oh, well, since you brought it up, why don't you tell me a little bit more about Wildcats? Yeah. So in leading production at Podcast Nation, obviously a big part of my job is booking guests on some of our podcasts and then getting our podcast hosts on other podcasts. And it's always been a bit of a struggle with a lot of different Google spreadsheets going on at the same time and a lot of email threads. And it's just been, you know, something that I wanted to streamline and was kind of looking for a solution.

(4m 20s):
And in business school at the time, while working at Podcast Nation, I was like, maybe we should just kind of try to do this ourselves. So I co founded the company with actually my godfather, his name's Scott, and then Clio Nadine have been incredibly supportive and helpful. And it's been so great to work with them, not only in Podcast Nation, but now with the Wildcats. Do cool. So is it a management system or it's basically all the different components I was looking for kind of in one website. So you log on and you make a profile as, you know, an agency, a network, an individual podcasts or a guest, and then you can kind of build your profile like you would on even like a dating app or a LinkedIn.

(5m 8s):
And then you can discover guests in Podcast through their request to connect with each other and then message back and forth. And we also have some calendaring functions. So you can kind of, instead of email threads, you can put it in your availability and have people book from there. So I would say it's a combination of guests, discovery and networking as well as a project management tool. It is interesting. I don't know if I can just add to that. Like it's interesting. The Podcasting world seems like it's so much, it just blew up. Like, I feel like it's a lot when you work in a lot of industries and so many people are now listening to podcasts, but we always say it really feels like the wild wild West. And it's pretty crazy to think that there is not more platforms that really help you streamline, but I do think it's due to how quickly it grew and just kinda trying to catch up.

(5m 59s):
So I remember Madison would spend so long trying to coordinate Podcast and even trying to sync calendars is like, it's, there's, it's just so time consuming. So it's a, we were really happy when we heard that Madison had come up with this idea because I think it's just going to save so much time. And, and I also think it's extending once everyone starts to get on the platform and everyone's using it, it's just going to be so beneficial for, for everyone who Podcast for guests. So I just, yeah, I'm really, really excited for it. Yeah. And even, even thinking of from your guys, aside from Ad Results Media, to see like yours is like, I can't even imagine how hard it is to discover the good Podcast.

(6m 41s):
That would be great Advertising, great podcasts for the sponsors your working with, because the really, the only way you can look at the top charts and kind of listen through things, but it's really hard to find that spot where you can discover and, and based on, you know, topics and based on who the hosts are in their social media following and like everything kind of in one spot. So hopefully it'll be a really good discovery tool for, for a lot of different people. Yeah. It sounds amazing. I'm very excited for it. I also described the podcast space as the wild wild West a lot. When I tell people about what I do very much on the nose, they're diving a little bit more into Podcast. What are some of your guys' favorite female of senators?

(7m 21s):
The Podcast? I feel like we might be a little bit of bias here because all, all our, all of our podcasts are all very female centered. It just, we didn't, we didn't mean to do it that way, but it just sort of happened that way that our listeners are almost all female. Our hosts are almost all female. So one of my favorites right now is when I love all of our fucking equally, but we work with actually MGM on a podcast called going to sell and the price. This is one of the first podcasts that MPM has produced and is hosted by ourselves, both Bei. And she is not familiar. She is on the real Housewives of Beverly Hills. She's an actress and a model and she's really witty and funny and smart.

(8m 5s):
And she in her pockets is all about, it's almost like sex positivity. She's a, you know, she's a mom, I think she's in her forties. She has three boys. And she's just, she's just so great in his section of a perspective, I think on, you know, being single when you're, you know, you're not in your twenties, you're a single in your sex life. And I think she just brings such an interesting voice to the podcast space. So that's my, that's my favorite of the moment. I'm definitely biased too. I will say one of the reasons I wanted to get into the Podcast, the industry to begin with is because I was a huge fan of Caitlin's podcast off the vine. And so that kind of got me interested in entering the space to begin with, and then working on a lot of our female hosted podcast, a podcast Nation, one that I've surprisingly really enjoyed working on is the wool bed with Danielle Maltby, who also was part of the bachelor franchise.

(8m 56s):
And it is centered on women in the medical field, which has nothing to do with me, but I actually like learned so much every week listening to it and it's just evolved. She, she just had someone from Johnson and Johnson. Who's leading the research on the Corona virus vaccine. So I feel like I'm just staying up to date when I listened to that one. So that's been a really cool one to work on. And then I'm trying to think of one, because of course we listen to our shows so much one that I love listen to all the time it's called Rob beauty talks, one of our girlfriends. She, she started this podcast and she like, we've seen her grow this brand a for the last few years. And she really focuses on the body positivity and how it all starts with self love.

(9m 39s):
So it reminds me of a little bit of a few, but I feel like she's a very good host and has really, I guess, real conversations. And one that I listened to that has just impacted my life is she has a sleep expert on and they talk about sleep patterns and how to have good sleep. And I feel, I feel like I learned so much as well. Like I do like Podcast where you, you learn a lot from listening to it, going to class. Right? Exactly. And then, and if the host is good, you know, you get so engaged and yeah. You're sucked in by their content. I feel like most of the podcasts I listened to now, I don't know if this was a good thing or not, but they're, they're all Women based. I also love Google by love.

(10m 20s):
Yeah. I'm like, maybe I need to diversify a little bit over here. Women is so interesting. I know. Right. They have great stories. So we were doing this series. So I'm, I'm curious professionally as y'all have kind of moved up the ladder, have you experienced any challenges that maybe you weren't expecting to face? I think one thing that's been interesting is, I mean, Podcasting isn't new by any means, but it's still an industry that's kind of finding itself. And so I think as people have entered the industry more recently, we were surprised.

(11m 2s):
Like, we were always surprised by how much we already have learned. And the last couple of years, because you really learn quickly and there is not, you know, there's not an industry standard for so many of these different things. So it's kind of like learning as you go, which is definitely a challenge, but I think is also really helpful. And so even though, you know, I've been doing this for two years, I feel like that gives me like 10 years of experience in Podcasting. Cause it's just like, it's changing all the time. It's, it's still finding itself. Yeah. It's funny. I was just having a conversation with one of our other employees this morning talking about like doing Ad traits and things. I'm like, I have no roadmap for you to Madison.

(11m 43s):
The point of like, we're just, everyone is still sort of figuring it out. And even the, the bigger, the agencies that are a much larger than ours, we think that they have it all sorted out, but they're also try new and see what works, what doesn't work as well. So it's kind of an exciting time to be in an industry that instill sort of in its infancy because there is that opportunity, but it's also, it also throws that challenge as well. Yeah. I definitely echo what Madison and Nadine said for sure. I also feel like that's what makes it fun though. The fact that there is no roadmap and everyone's trying something different and it really fits with this space because it's all about the host and their audience. So trying different things.

(12m 25s):
This is kind of the name of the game. Yeah, totally. That's what keeps it exciting and yeah, we're all the time, but you know, we're all entrepreneurs and it is, it really keeps you motivated. I do think that the challenging part is a lot of people, like when you work with them, they don't realize that it is a newer space in my other role is like, you know, they come to you and you feel confident with the answer. But I think one of the big things is being totally okay to be like, okay, let's try this. And you just have to get a little bit more crafty and creative, I think, to, to try to hit those, like those benchmarks. So challenging, but accepted.

(13m 5s):
I like that challenges are all of your shows are a female centric, but if you kinda take a step back and look at the industry as a whole, do you feel that women are equally represented in the Podcasting space, both as host's and behind the scenes. So, yeah, like you said, I feel like we're pretty skewed. Our company is all women. So I think we were a little bit skewed in that sense and that again was not by design. We just did. We just happened to have all women in our company. I do see, you know, the other larger companies in this space Ad, but there's a lot of females that we've worked with.

(13m 50s):
Actually I work mostly. I it's very rare that I, you know, talked to a lot of men, but we can look at the senior positions. They usually are a man. And so I think it's important to keep that in mind that even though it was a lot of women working in industry, at least from what we see, that doesn't mean that there is people representation on the top. So I think that that's just something that as an industry too, keep in mind and realize that, that, that time that the quality is important as well. Yeah. I'm always surprised because obviously I listened to mostly female hosted podcasts, but then when you step back and you're going through the charts and you're looking at, especially like Business in science, it's really heavily dominated by that. And so it's something that we don't really come face to face with every day, but it's definitely something that's still a very skewed.

(14m 38s):
I feel like that's something that we've noticed as well, especially the higher up you go there. Are there, are there just more men than there are women? How do y'all think that we could welcome more female into the industry? You know, whether it be through hosting or, or behind the scenes or even through an agency. This is interesting and needing to know we're just, we're having a conversation. And Nadine mentioned something that I hadn't really thought about, but she's like how many men really listen to Women podcasts? Like, you know, w and I was like, well, I don't listen to that many men podcasts, as I just said that.

(15m 18s):
And I think it's kind of like the interest, but I almost think it's starting to change maybe more of like the behavior of what type of content that men listen to. And also maybe how it's advertised, because when we think of, you know, our social media strategies or who we work with, like, we really focus on Advertising to women, you know? So we really lean into already who is listening to, to the show and you, you look for lookalike audiences. So I don't know if there is a way to then I'm just trying to get that type of content out to males as well. 'cause, that's a big part of the listenership. Yeah. Which is probably the reason why there's so many of, you know, if we look at the top charts, it's still dominated by a lot of men because I think it is, and this is completely generally speaking.

(16m 6s):
And I have no scientific data to back that, but I would think that most women wouldn't think twice about the same to a male host. Like it would just be a very normal for where he lists you solicit to male voices. And I think on the other hand, there are fewer men that listen to the female voices. And so then there's the In, but I think that that's outside of Podcasting as well. Like that's not, that's not just in this industry. It's just, it's in music, it's in films and TV. When there's female beads or a female written music and female perform music, there's likely less of a male audience there. I don't know if there's, I don't know what the easy fix is on that one.

(16m 47s):
That's so true. Now that you say that, because I definitely think, yeah, women are more open to listening to men speak on certain things where men are like, kind of looking to other men, usually for those topics. But I think within agencies and networks and people who are hiring, I think it just makes the most sense to make sure there's equal representation, or at least some female representation, because things are starting to, even out, there are more female listeners than ever, and that number is growing. So from a business perspective, it just makes sense to make sure that women are included in your company for various reasons, especially since we're, you know, listening to podcasts more than ever.

(17m 27s):
I know that y'all have mentioned that y'all's podcasts are a little more skewed towards female than, than male, but I've read while doing some research for the, this series. I've read several interviews with a female hosts who have mentioned that their podcasts have received less funding than like mail hosts have y'all experienced that at all. Is that something that you've noticed on your side? I mean, I haven't personally experienced that and I think it's interesting to you because even through a Kaitlin, we work with our agency, we work with Podcast one on them with them, and I feel like she's been treated, I think very fairly what I think what I find in the Podcast space is like, at the end of the day, you kind of break it down to the numbers.

(18m 24s):
Like, what's your listenership, but I'm not sure if it's the, you know, some men have had better offers, but I just assumed it was more just based on the numbers of the downloads and, and your audience. The only thing I can think of An and, and again, I don't, I promise this is, I don't know if this is completely accurate it with just being an assumption on my friend, but obviously most Podcast make money off of advertisements. And I think that there is a tendency, or there may be a tendency for audiences and with advertisements and lots of advertisements for men than from women. Like I know it's something that some of our hosts have had some backlash products having too much advertising on their podcast and people not liking that.

(19m 9s):
But at the end of the day, like that's, that's how Podcast made make money. That's how this industry runs. And so I think it's a matter of, you know, listeners as well being okay with understanding that, being good with the fact that this house that they love, that put so much time and effort into their podcasts. Like they should be making money. Like, that's just, that's how it works. And maybe if we listen to Joe Robbins podcast, this is like seven minutes of ads before he even starts talking about anything on his podcast. And I assume his audiences are fine with that, but I'll see what to keep doing it. So that's the only thing that I could think on from that, that I can see, but I, I, but I don't, I don't know, a hundred percent of that is the case.

(19m 50s):
I was thinking from what Clio said, like in terms of Kaitlin, she was kind of earlier to the Podcast space compared to a lot of the podcasts that have entered in the last couple of years. And so I think that if you do have the numbers to support you, I'm sure it's relatively equal, but I could definitely see it being skewed if you're new to entering the space. And you're a new host. I definitely think that could probably affect things in terms of the amount of investment investment that people are willing to put it in you. And that's something that, that Lisa and I've discussed, like, is it, is it a lack of female creators? Did they come in later in the game, have the majority of listeners been men up until this point?

(20m 33s):
Like we know that there is several variables there, but yeah, it, it sounds like we're all kind of asking the same questions, like where, you know, where is that kind of coming from? And I don't know, but I'm sure investors, like, they obviously their research before putting, you know, before investing in anything and if they're going on the top charts and they're seeing that, Oh, well, 80% are on the top charts are male, then that could for sure be a reason why they're not as willing or won't pay like maybe like the same price. So maybe it goes back to like, how do you change that, like that top charts? Cause it does kind of set the tone for, for the rest of the industry and everyone else.

(21m 14s):
I think it's a really interesting, I hadn't thought about from the ad load perspective that male hosts could run more ads than females. Now I'm like trying to think through listening to different shows. And I think you're right. I think a lot of, of the male hosted ones have more ads, which means by default, they're making more money. So it's a definitely an interesting angle that we hadn't thought about or chatted through yet. So thanks for bringing that up is that as we kind of look at the industry and notice some of these differences, what would you like to see change in the Podcast industry? I mean, one, one thing that we'd seen in the last, especially this year, I mean, I know the COVID has been challenging in so many different industries, but it's, we're finding it more and more challenging to, you know, launch shows that are profitable, that you can find an audience can find the sponsorship necessary to keep going.

(22m 12s):
And so I think from our perspective is basic is basically trying to figure out how we can be more efficient, right? How are we can still keep supporting those shows and keep putting out that content and launch these new shows, but do so in a way that's more efficient we've been doing before because we need to, at the end of the day, we're all running businesses and we all need to pay their bills at the end of the day. So I mean, one of the reasons that obviously Madison started talking about well-paced is that we were so excited about that. There is so much time wasted on things that can be tightened up. So that's one thing kind of like, is it a general note for the, for the industry that I think improve? I think a lot of big Podcast obviously have teams and networks behind them who are doing a lot for them.

(22m 56s):
And in that way they can just kind of focus on their content creation and I'll have to worry about spending time on these other things, but hopefully Wildcats will kind of get rid of that, you know, need for independent Podcast to struggle and waste times in certain aspects. And they can discover people who are more appropriate for their audience and guests who would attract new listeners and do Ad drains with podcasts, have a similar size to promote themselves. So I think giving tools to the smaller podcasters who might not have the funding or the resources behind them to be able to put their content out there, because at the end of the day, that's how they're going to grow is just by putting that content out there.

(23m 37s):
And if there's not a easy way to do that, then they're going to struggle they're in it. And I think one of the other, one of the things that I think would be really interesting, see the change part of the reason that when Nadine and I were talking about starting Podcast Nation, we realized how this industry is very siloed and it's, it's coming from an agency background where, you know, you can, you try to combo things up or you're really trying to work on one thing so that the other thing grows and, you know, there's, there's just like a stronger effect that way. But with Podcasting, it really is on its own. So one of the things I wanted to do was be able to provide with different services and also make it, so it's like a bit of a sliding scale.

(24m 24s):
Okay. If we're doing more like more of an agency model rather than a one size fits all, but even too, like having Podcasting, if you're having some ads, like it makes so much sense to then potentially do some kind of digital campaign or social media advertising or something that really makes it feel also more organic from the host or the talent is because it's, it's more of a, I guess it can ambassador of the brand rather than like you're doing, it's so separate and you're doing one promotion for a product on a platform and it could be a competitor of it's on another platform because you're just dealing with different agencies. And there's that lack of communication between between the two.

(25m 6s):
So I feel like there's a lot of opportunity for that to grow in, in the Podcasting space. I'm curious from your perspective from the agent, like from your age with the backgrounds, would you say that Podcasting fits more with radio or more in like an influencer bucket? By the way? I see it as more in terms of the influencer bucket, because I think that what you're doing as a host of a podcast is like, I think that's one of the strongest ways that you can really define your brand and you can have that connection with your audience in such a more, in a more intimate level. So that's where I think that the influence comes in is because people are now more connected to you.

(25m 48s):
They really trust you. And then you have them voicing this Ad. And there is more of that connection than just like listening to radio app to radio. And then like, there's an ad that's plugged in. So like I see it more, yeah. More tied with the influencer space. And I guess it depends a little bit on the Podcast itself, like for our Podcast, for sure. Way more tied to influencers and then there's new stuff and less, less of what the heck. Yeah, that was actually a very good point. I think it's because we work with mostly with influencers. So then people are connected with them on a different level because they're also super connected with them on their Instagram stories.

(26m 28s):
But if you're listening to news or like educational podcast, then, then maybe it's more on the radio front. But I do think when it goes into radio, you at least as a listener myself, if I were to listen to radio, I think that the host has anything to do with the advertisements. Whereas in Podcasting our hosts, hand-select everything that they want to endorse and be a part of. So I think that makes it much more influential and organic. And we as an agency also run radio ads and do live endorsements and they run kind of similar. So it's really interesting to hear from other people's perspective, how different they are and how much of Podcast really falls closer to influencers.

(27m 14s):
But I, I do see your points on, depending on the type of Podcast as well, outside of joining wild cast, what would be a recommendation that you guys have for new podcast hosts trying to break into the space? I mean, I think the big thing that I always tell people whenever we first started talking about potentially launching a new podcast is how much work it really is. I think that it's really hard to understand that from the outside looking in, because it seems it's a very simple one at the end of the door and in some ways it is, but it's also a lot of work to make it really good is a lot of work to find that audience there's a lot of work to find that unique voice, to have really great guests, really interesting questions that you ask our guests.

(28m 2s):
It's just, I mean, as you guys know, it's, it does take a ton of time. And I think that if you're not ready for that, either from weather as a host or producer or whenever part of the podcast, and you want to get into, if you don't realize that going in, I think you're in for a bit of a rude awakening and yeah, just, just be ready to be a super crafty and a resource being really clear on why you're a Podcasting. Y is it going to be original? And what's your angle? Like so many people will come and be like, Oh, well we have this Podcast. We really want to start. And we want to interview people and see like how they got to where they are and like, okay, we know there's so many podcasts that like, okay, you can do that.

(28m 44s):
But like, what's going to be original about your podcast because this space is getting so crowded. That what value are you going to bring in that you really have to like stick to that. And then I think the other thing too, is like, knowing that this is going to be a longterm play. Like if you, if you really want to see success from it, you're going to have to commit to a long, you know, to, to, to years, not necessarily months to really see that the results that you want to write. I think people really need to, if they want to start a podcast, go into it without thinking about that revenue piece at first and just make sure that they're investing in themselves and their content, because I think that's the way that you're going to be successful versus saying, okay, I need to get into here and then monetize as quickly as possible.

(29m 30s):
That's just not realistic. Like Clio said, you know, it's a long, it's a long term for me. I don't know marketing, but you have to just be willing, invest in yourself and make sure that you're taking the time and that you're doing it kind of for the right reasons. Yeah. And I think just to go off of that, to like, like you said, it's investing in yourself and also realizing that, you know, if the only reason you're doing is to monetize it, then you might want to rethink that because there might be better ways that you can spend your time, but it is such an amazing content creator. So if you're really, you know, passionate about what you're doing and you have to teach and, and you're creating a Podcast, it's such good content that you can share on other, your website or on your social media, and you can really deliver that, that quality content if it's done.

(30m 20s):
Right. So I, I definitely agree. There's so much content out there right now. Are there any specific stories that y'all would like to hear kind of moving forward? What is it? And it was interesting. We actually worked, worked with the Podcast. It's the trip that changed me. And, and that was the one where there was like, that concept came to us and we're like, Oh yeah, we love this idea. And it's about how, you know, someone has an experience when they're traveling. It really changes the course of their life and really see, and seeing how and where they are today because of that one trip.

(31m 0s):
And so things like that, like, I, I really liked, like I had never heard of Podcast like that before. And I'm like, okay, let's do it because I truly would love to listen to this. And I haven't seen this, but I'm trying to think of what, like new, because there is so much content out there. Like you think of something, we probably can find it if he worked for it. But I mean, I, I think it'd be interesting to right now with, with everything changing so much in this year of being so crazy, like I thought of travel right away because I'm like, Oh, it'd be interesting to hear how people, how traveling and changes or how not being able to travel the world affects people's lives.

(31m 43s):
Like, I don't know, there's that culture piece that's taken away or that potential like family bonding or, or even like, there's these trips that people go on and it does change their perspective, changes their course of their life and is like, how are people replacing that? That was, I don't know why it just came to mind. Yeah. One thing I've thought about, and I don't know exactly how this would be a dumb, because these people are so busy, but in terms of the political angle of, of getting to know either political candidates or your actual representatives over Podcast more. Cause I think we talked about it as such a powerful tool to like listen to someone's voice and get like an in depth into our costs.

(32m 23s):
And oftentimes health officials will be a guest on podcasts, but I think it could be a really powerful tool for people to get better understanding of who these people really are and what they really stand for. Especially you guys in to intellectual word. And we're in Canada and obviously this year, and I think it could be a really powerful tool. One thing that I'm sure exists because everything does exist in some form, but that I would of liked when I was younger, maybe in high school or in college was I struggled to find exactly what I wanted to do. And I think it's, you know, if you intern or take a job somewhere, that's a big time commitment, you know, even if it's just a few months.

(33m 7s):
So I think it'd be really interesting to hear perspectives on people in all different industries and what certain jobs actually look like. So that you're more prepared when you're heading into the real world. Cause I think in high school going to college and like declaring a major, I was like, I don't, how would I know what I want to do with the rest of my life? And so before working in Podcasting, I worked in tech and I worked in hospitality and I worked in entertainment and like tried to find my footing and what I wanted to do and Podcasting kind of exposes me to all those areas. So it's perfect for someone who is interested in multiple things, but I'd really An, there might be one great one out there that I don't know about, but that's something that I would've liked to listen to.

(33m 50s):
I really, I really liked that. I feel like there are folks who kinda come in a little starry-eyed and they romanticize, you know, these jobs and it's not always the fun stuff. No, I worked at a big magazine, New York and that's it it's like from watching TV shows and movies, I was like, that'll be amazing. And it, it wasn't frankly. So I think being better equipped to head into the real-world and now obviously the younger generation has access to things like podcasts, where they can learn these things outside of school. So I think that could be interesting. Was it like the devil wears Prada? I'm a a hundred percent I was picking up like green juices.

(34m 33s):
It was, it was really something. Well, y'all I really appreciate, y'all taking the time to jump on and talk to us today. This has been a great conversation and, and I've loved having y'all on the podcast. So fun. When are we doing it again? If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe for updates on future episodes and leave us a comment with your feedback, questions or ideas for future segments, if you would like more info and Ad Results Media, and what we do, please visit us online at Ad Results. Media dot com. This podcast is an Ad Results, Media production.